tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4146794174400139442.post3433875984908421114..comments2023-07-03T07:20:53.252-04:00Comments on Whiteknight's World: Neko VMWhiteknighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16207472474429254890noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4146794174400139442.post-64500748799770107442010-02-03T13:02:20.883-05:002010-02-03T13:02:20.883-05:00Thanks for the info =)
Would you happen to know a...Thanks for the info =)<br /><br />Would you happen to know any performance related info about Parrot??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4146794174400139442.post-82121166577658861482010-01-24T19:49:15.967-05:002010-01-24T19:49:15.967-05:00kjs: that's very interesting to hear! I am not...kjs: that's very interesting to hear! I am not too familiar with the Neko language right now, so if you do dig up your files I would love to see them.<br /><br />I've thought for a while now that PIR is really a bad thing. It's not a direct human-readable version of bytecode like PASM is, and it's not particularly easy to parse. I have more thoughts on the issue which will probably turn into a full blog post later, but if we had a "native" language closer to Neko or even NQP, I think things would be much better for Parrot.Whiteknighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16207472474429254890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4146794174400139442.post-35776940696154261852010-01-24T19:42:38.168-05:002010-01-24T19:42:38.168-05:00Actually, I already implemented pretty much the wh...Actually, I already implemented pretty much the whole grammar of Neko in PCT... It's been a while back, but I'm sure I have the source files lying around somewhere, should someone be interested. Once you have the parser implemented, the parse actions are pretty straightforward, also thanks to the fact that Neko is indeed an "easy to learn" language. I'd say, if you have a bit of experience with PCT, you could do a Neko language implementation in 1 or 2 days.kjshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01211618716363902508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4146794174400139442.post-67793578694350548882010-01-24T08:13:11.363-05:002010-01-24T08:13:11.363-05:00Again, most languages on Parrot are being written ...Again, most languages on Parrot are being written by only one developer part time. Of course they lag behind other projects with large teams. Also Parrot hasbeen in a state of flux so HLL devs are spending time upgrading to new Parrot versions, which slows dwn feature development.Whiteknighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16207472474429254890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4146794174400139442.post-71635323943452500262010-01-24T08:09:05.278-05:002010-01-24T08:09:05.278-05:00I meant far behind being able to work with the cor...I meant far behind being able to work with the core implementation of python/php/ruby/javascript/... without giving much thought about missing parts, bugs and wasting to much ressources. So I doubt it would be "very easy to create a Neko compiler frontend for Parrot".<br /><br />NQP-RX is quite new. Let's hope it has a huge positive impact on the productivity of the language developers. We will see.<br /><br /><br />My comment about the mixture of languages that are needed for language developers was based on rakudo and partcl, most other languages use pir. Again, we will see whether nqp-rx boosts productivity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4146794174400139442.post-3589646869919468782010-01-23T14:03:27.669-05:002010-01-23T14:03:27.669-05:00I think that's an unfair characterization. Lan...I think that's an unfair characterization. Language implementations in general are not "far behind" anything.<br /><br />Most language implementations we have on Parrot right now are being developed part time by only one or two volunteers. And, many of these people working on HLLs are only doing it as a secondary project while also hacking on Parrot. Effort is being divided and yet many projects are still making excellent progress.<br /><br />Rakudo is the exception of course because it has a large team of hackers working on it. But then again the Perl 6 language is huge and complex, so that compiler is taking a lot of time.<br /><br />The Tcl implementation is making excellent progress but until recently it hasn't been using PCT or NQP which are the tools we use to make development go much faster. Since Tcl started it's switch to PCT and NQP-RX, it has made very good progress. Only one person is really working on that compiler, however.<br /><br />Also, the last part of what you said is basically wrong. Most HLL projects don't need to use any C, and most projects can use very little PIR. With the newer versions of NQP, some projects don't need any PIR at all. C and the mangled C variants are basically only used in Parrot's core. Compiler developers don't need to use them at all unless they want to write custom extensions.Whiteknighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16207472474429254890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4146794174400139442.post-13301776116499832592010-01-23T12:42:22.865-05:002010-01-23T12:42:22.865-05:00I don't want to offend someone nor do I want d...I don't want to offend someone nor do I want devalue the work that Parrot hackers invested, but looking at the progress of Parrot (for a while now) I have to ask: Why are all major language implementations so far behind? Working with that mixture of PIR, C (and mangled C for .ops files) and NQP might not be that productive and doesn't attract lots of developers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com